When it comes to discussing certain topics, we all know (and some of us have been?) ‘that guy’ whose style of engagement seems to harm rather than help the conversation.
I think (and know from my own experience) that loud, impatient dismissals are almost always say more about the loud, impatient dismisser than they do about what is being dismissed. One gets the double sensation of the person both a) having their mind so made up that discussion with this person is pointless, and at the same time sensing that b) this person has a need to prove their rightness not only to you but themselves as well.
My Dad has a saying (perhaps he got it somewhere himself); the more upset a person gets in a discussion, the weaker their view probably is. I’d just qualify it a tad to say “…the less confident they are of their view”, because just as it is possible to be confident of a false view, so also is it possible to have a false bravado for a a true view.
Having said that, I think it’s naive to think that we can detach our own emotions from our beliefs, and enjoy a ‘robust’ and ‘frank’ discussion. I also think one can firmly believe (not ‘know’ in the strict epistemological sense) they are correct and still engage fruitfully with someone they fully disagree with.
The relevant point that follows from this is that the more you really believe view ‘x’, the less energy you’ll need to defend ‘x’ and the more energy you can spend on understanding and critiquing ‘anti-x’, and of course’x’ as well.
This is true in all relationships as well. The more you know who you are, the less you’ll need another person to appear inferior to you (to asset yourself over them) or superior to them (to ride upon their coattails). The more secure your self definition is, the less you’ll need others and their opinions to define you. You’ll be less worried about self and more available emotionally and intellectually to the other. The more rooted you are, the more you can reach out.
Cheers to Bryson for directing me to an essay, which I discovered was one over several over at The John Templeton Foundation.
The essays are comprised answers to ‘big questions’ from a variety of perspectives – theist, atheist and agnostic. They make for interesting reading whatever your beliefs are.
Two of the ‘big questions‘ essays were of particular interest to me: “Does the Universe Have a Purpose?” and “Does Science Make Belief in God Obsolete?“.
Some other bits which may be of interest to some readers include:
- “Does Evolution Explain Human Nature?“
- Debates between contributers to the Science/Belief essay (Christopher Hitchens v. Ken Miller; Jerome Groopman v. Michael Shermer; and Steven Pinker v. William D. Phillips).
- A Brief interview with (physicist/cosmologist) Paul Davies concerning multiverse theory
- assorted video content (look for it) :)
Posted in christianity, philosophy, science
Tagged atheism, belief, creation, debate, evolution, faith, god, life, philosophy, science, theism, web
Thanks, Ian Luxmoore…
…for a friendly, respectful, engaging and thoroughly enjoyable conversation about life, god, the universe, morality and all the rest.
Posted in general
Tagged atheism, belief, debate, evolution, faith, god, life, order, philosophy, religion, science, theism, truth
Blamentations (pronounced: Blah-men-tay-shins; combining the words ‘blog’ and ‘lamentations’). Continue reading
What Genesis 1-3 is not: a play-by-play, atom-by-atom historical and scientific account of creation. The author/community which produced the text clearly had other things in mind than producing such a thing.*
This is widely accepted by people who should know: scholars in fields relevant to Genesis 1-3 (biblical scholars, ancient near east religion scholars, hebrew linguists, experts on ancient semetic poetry, etc. – see relevant examples in the Denver Seminary Old Testament bibliograpy – updated annually). Yael Klangwisan spoke on Genesis recently at a TANSA event at Laidlaw college, and a very informative PDF of her slideshow can be found here.
Unfortunately there are two kinds of people I know of that both tend to insist that Genesis 1-3 is intended as a ‘factual’ report of the exact, literal events of creation. These two types of people are (who would have thunk it!?) young-earth Creationists (YEC’s)… and many (not all) atheists.
YEC’s are convinced that science supports their literal interpretation (see pretty much anything on this site)…
…and some atheists are convinced that this literal-and-only-literal-gosh-darnit interpretation has been replaced by science (see the opening statement of Richard Dawkins from his 2007 debate with John Lennox – and I’ll put a transcription of it as the first comment below).**
Meanwhile, there are those who are willing to listen to what Genesis is really trying to get across, and who refuse to use science to prove their religious or anti-religious views.
*Many/most/all? of the characters in the Bible, for example, would have been aware of the poetic and metaphorical nature of Genesis 1-3, though would naturally have had little/no reason to question whether or not it took 6 days for God to create the world, etc. A prime example of just how much the literal-ness of this text does not matter in Jewish thought is the story of when Ray Vander Laan asked the world-class Jewish scholar, Jacob Neusner how long the days of creation were; to which the reply after a long pause was “I’ve never thought about that.”
** No… wait… Dawkins doesn’t only say that the literal interpretation of Genesis 1-3 is replaced by science, he says that religious explanations in general are replaced by science… Wow.
Posted in bible, christianity, philosophy, science, theology
Tagged atheism, belief, christianity, creation, debate, faith, religion, science
- if the time we spend is to be at all worthwhile, we need to accept that words matter enough to use them and work at our use of them (some key words in science/faith include: ‘knowledge’, ‘evidence’, ‘explanation’, ‘natural’, ‘reality’, etc).
- it occurs to me that aiming for mutual understanding is infinitely more helpful than aiming to ‘win’.
- it seems a good idea to avoid the trap of straw-man argumentation, or presenting someone else’s perspective in its worst form – which is often (mostly?) done with little quips or with sarcasm (often the more sustained an argument is, the less ‘straw-man-ish’ it is).
- don’t post a comment while you’re angry/frustrated (and this obviously does not mean that comments should be –or even could be– totally void of emotion).
- that is all for now (and I don’t claim to do all these all the time)…
Posted in philosophy, science, theology, www
Tagged atheism, belief, conflict, debate, emotions, faith, god, philosophy, religion, science, theology, truth, web
I’ve checked out a book from the Carey Baptist library that’s proving to be very interesting:
The Future of Atheism: Alister McGrath & Daniel Dennett in Dialogue
It’s essentially a written copy of a 2007 conference including the McGrath/Dennett debate and the other papers presented – plus a few additional chapters and an introduction by the author/editor, Robert B. Stewart.
What I particularly like about it (conference and book), is that it gives space for both sides to lay out their perspective. Contributors include: Paul Copan, William Lane Craig, J.P. Morland, Keith M. Parsons, Ted Peters, Hugh J. McCann and others…
I look forward to reading as much of it as I can (probably late night reads while waiting for Thomas to feed, etc.!).
Posted in philosophy
Tagged atheism, belief, creation, debate, faith, god, philosophy, religion, science, spirituality, theism, theology, worldview
In a 2007 debate with John Lennox (viewable here), Richard Dawkins vocalises his frustration that religion (in his view) ‘stuntifies’ true scientific understanding:
“The scientific enterprise is an active, seeking… an active seeking out of gaps in our knowledge… [a] seeking out of ignorance, so that we can work to plug that ignorance. But religion teaches us to be satisfied with not really understanding. Every time one of these difficult questions comes up, science says, ‘Right, let’s roll up our sleeves and work on it.’ Religion says, ‘Oh, god did it.’ ‘We don’t need to work on it, god did it. It’s as simple of that.’ …Religion stuntifies the impulse to understand, because religion gives a facile, easy, apparent explanation… and it prevents the further work on the problem. Continue reading
Posted in christianity, philosophy, science, theology
Tagged atheism, belief, books, conflict, creation, debate, epistemology, faith, Francis Collins, god, Guy Consolmagno, Kenneth Miller, religion, science
I’ve quite enjoyed reading through “Is Nature Enough: Meaning and Truth in the Age of Science“, by John Haught. One of the many points he articulates well is what he refers to as “layered explanation”. Continue reading
Posted in philosophy, science, theology
Tagged abortion, atheism, belief, books, debate, epistemology, ethics, faith, morals, philosophy, religion, science, theism, truth, worldview
Obama’s recent statements on the 36th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, remind us all (like it or not) of the immensely divisive issue of abortion. The article says… Continue reading
Posted in ethics, philosophy
Tagged abortion, change, conflict, culture, current event, death, debate, dignity, ethics, humanity, humility, Law, life, morals, philosophy, politics, relationships, sexuality, truth, wisdom