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	<title>fruitful faith &#187; bible</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/category/bible/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net</link>
	<description>exploring the challenge of trusting &#38; obeying Jesus...</description>
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		<title>patience&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2012/01/patience/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=patience</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2012/01/patience/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[enquiry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[epistemology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[patience]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1710</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>With any discipline or line of enquiry, patience is a virtue.</p> <p>We must have patience regarding the amount we will ever be able to know about a given topic.  Whether your &#8216;-ology&#8217; is of &#8216;bios&#8217;, &#8216;theos&#8217;, or &#8216;cosmos&#8217;, it&#8217;s essential to remember that there will always be more questions.  For some, this is an enquiry-stopper.  &#8221;Heck, if we can&#8217;t know <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2012/01/patience/">patience&#8230;</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With any discipline or line of enquiry, patience is a virtue.</p>
<p>We must have patience regarding the amount we will ever be able to know about a given topic.  Whether your &#8216;-ology&#8217; is of &#8216;bios&#8217;, &#8216;theos&#8217;, or &#8216;cosmos&#8217;, it&#8217;s essential to remember that there will always be more questions.  For some, this is an enquiry-stopper.  &#8221;Heck, if we can&#8217;t know it all, why bother?&#8221;  For myself, however, this is invigorating!  More to learn!  More to think about!  More to consider!  Let&#8217;s get to it!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>full gospel</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/12/full-gospel/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=full-gospel</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/12/full-gospel/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 04:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ascension]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[birth]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cross]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[empty Tomb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evangelicalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evangelism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[full gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[incarnation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ministry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pentecost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[resurrection]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[salvation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spirit]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Some presentations and presenters of Christianity are, in my view, overly obsessed with the Death of Jesus such that they over-emphasise it, and end up marginalising the Incarnation of Jesus, the Ministry of Jesus, the Resurrection of Jesus, the Ascension of Jesus and the giving of the Spirit of Jesus.  It probably wouldn&#8217;t be fair to use any label for <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/12/full-gospel/">full gospel</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some presentations and presenters of Christianity are, in my view, overly obsessed with the Death of Jesus such that they over-emphasise it, and end up marginalising the Incarnation of Jesus, the Ministry of Jesus, the Resurrection of Jesus, the Ascension of Jesus and the giving of the Spirit of Jesus.  It probably wouldn&#8217;t be fair to use any label for the flavour of Christianity I inherited in my early years as a Christian.  Whatever label is used, this version of Christianity is too prevalent.</p>
<p>In this version I inherited, the only reason Jesus was born was to die for our sins.  His ministry seemed like just some time-filling activity before he died.  The Resurrection is like icing on the cake after the &#8216;main event&#8217;, his Atoning death.  The Ascension is basically ignored altogether.  And the gift of the Spirit is basically about empowering people to tell others that Jesus died for their sins.  The New Testament, and the study and explanation of it over Church History, however, contains a Gospel that is much fuller than this version I inherited (and which most of our modern and quite a few of our older worship songs tend to focus on).</p>
<p><strong>The Incarnation of Jesus</strong> is not a mere stepping stone to the Cross (though it is not less than that).  It is the Creator entering and uniting to the Creation in general, and human nature in particular.  This, the Eastern Orthodox rightly emphasise, is itself a saving act.  All creation participates in the salvation that Christ effects.</p>
<p><strong>The Ministry of Jesus</strong> does not merely fill time until the Cross.  Jesus life and ministry is an enactment and fulfillment of genuine humanness.  Everything that humans were meant to be and do, which was focused in the call of Abraham and his people &#8216;Israel&#8217;, Jesus achieved and demonstrated in his life.  He finishes the race we could not.  This is a saving act.</p>
<p><strong>The Resurrection of Jesus</strong> is not a mere happy ending to the Cross.  Whereas the Cross entails Jesus taking Death (and Evil and Sin) onto himself and extinguishing it, the bodily transformation and translation of Jesus, the Resurrection, enacts and achieves the defeat of Death (and Evil and Sin).  It also achieves a kind of &#8216;beachhead&#8217; (or &#8216;first-fruits&#8217;) into New Creation, the ultimate destiny and intended goal for all Creation.  This is a saving act &#8211; for all creation &#8211; including humans.</p>
<p><strong>The Ascension of Jesus</strong> is not an undoing of the Incarnation (which would be a huge heresy), where the Son of God strips off his humanity and reports back to the Father that the atoning death was accomplished (and thus the body no longer needed!).  It is about the enthronement of Jesus to the place of ultimate authority &#8211; which among other things, entails a denial of any other entities claiming such ultimate authority.  This is a saving act, saving us from false authorities.</p>
<p><strong>The Giving of the Spirit of Jesus</strong> is not simply a bit of personal motivation to tell people about Jesus dying for us (though it is not less than that!).  It is the gift of the ongoing personal spiritual presence of Jesus, enabling us, correcting us, leading us, empowering us, shaping us to become more like Jesus.  It&#8217;s not just about &#8216;evangelism&#8217; (or exciting private experiences), but about becoming more human &#8211; more like the true human, Jesus.  The Spirit of the true human, Jesus, makes us truly human.  This &#8216;humanisation&#8217; (or &#8216;re-humanisation&#8217;) is a saving act; it&#8217;s what salvation is all about.</p>
<p>And <em>that&#8217;s</em> the &#8220;full gospel&#8221; that the New Testament communicates.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>finished</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/11/finished/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=finished</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/11/finished/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ethics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[BappTheol]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Carey Baptist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[research]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s been a good little while since I&#8217;ve posted, because I&#8217;ve been finishing my undergrad degree  I&#8217;ve turned in my last essay just this Sunday, which was one of two larger (6,000 word) research projects.  I attach links to the PDFs below.</p> <p>Upon graduation in March, I will officially have three qualifications, one related to building houses, and two <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/11/finished/">finished</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s been a good little while since I&#8217;ve posted, because I&#8217;ve been finishing my undergrad degree <img src='http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   I&#8217;ve turned in my last essay just this Sunday, which was one of two larger (6,000 word) research projects.  I attach links to the PDFs below.</p>
<p>Upon graduation in March, I will officially have three qualifications, one related to building houses, and two related to &#8216;building up&#8217; people <img src='http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>AAS (Associate of Applied Science: Building Materials Merchandising)<br />
DipPL (Diploma of Pastoral Leadership)<br />
BappTheol (Bachelor of Applied Theology)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what my posting regularity or content will be like.  Time will tell.  But anyway, here are those PDFs.</p>
<ul>
<li>“<strong>orientation –disorientation –reorientation</strong>”<strong>(<a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/fruitfulfaith.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/Orientation-Disorientation-Reorientation.pdf">PDF</a>)</strong> a thematic integrative research project on homosexuality –Myk Habets, supervisor</li>
<li>“<strong>alternative currency: An Economic Contrast of the Harlot &amp; Bride in John’s Apocalypse &amp; Implications for Alternative Ecclesiology in Consumptive Culture</strong>”<strong>(<a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/fruitfulfaith.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/Alternative-Currency.pdf">PDF</a>)</strong> theological research paper –Andrew Picard, supervisor</li>
</ul>
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		<item>
		<title>lamb power</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/05/lamb-power/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=lamb-power</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/05/lamb-power/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 May 2011 22:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lamb]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[omnipotence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[power]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[progressive revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revelation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve long held the view that God doesn&#8217;t always get what God wants/wills/desires.  It seems fundamentally basic to me.</p> <p>Because, there is more than one way to be omnipotent.</p> <p>By way of analogy, take my non-omnipotence&#8230; my mere potency.  I possess the &#8216;ability&#8217;, or &#8216;power&#8217; or &#8216;potency&#8217; to do this or that thing.  I am, within the laws of physics, <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/05/lamb-power/">lamb power</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve long held the view that God doesn&#8217;t always get what God wants/wills/desires.  It seems fundamentally basic to me.</p>
<p>Because, there is more than <em>one</em> way to be omnipotent.</p>
<p>By way of analogy, take my non-omnipotence&#8230; my mere potency.  I possess the &#8216;ability&#8217;, or &#8216;power&#8217; or &#8216;potency&#8217; to do this or that thing.  I am, within the laws of physics, I suppose, free to do what I like.  In parenting Thomas, I have the power to be harsh or lax, smothering or distant, coercive or cold, forceful or far-off (or hopefully somewhere in-between).</p>
<p>If we take God&#8217;s existence (or &#8216;super-Existence&#8217; or some word we don&#8217;t have, etc.) as a given, the possible extremes for God&#8217;s mode of interaction with the world are a kind of indifferent and distant deism (like a cold, careless father), or a manipulative, coercive dictator (like a harsh, smothering mother).</p>
<p>The biblical story develops.  Sometimes God seems to be distant, and sometimes God seems in intervene in ways that are quite sudden and forceful.  But as time and the story unfolds, the picture of God <em>develops</em>.  And this development is (as we&#8217;d expect &#8211; and like unto the development of, for example, science) characterised by both continuity and discontinuity.  But at any rate, God is never perfectly known &#8211; not yet anyway (1 Cor. 13:9).</p>
<p>But what does happen is that the New Testament authors are convinced that in Jesus of Nazareth, they have seen God in a way that is truly an &#8216;unveiling&#8217;.  The author of Hebrews contrasts the former God-speech from prophets and such like (Hebrews 1:1-2), with the recent unveiling of the &#8216;express image&#8217; of God&#8217;s person (v3).  The book of Revelation could be called literally &#8216;the unveiling/uncovering of Jesus Christ&#8217;.</p>
<p>One of the most striking, unintuitive and &#8216;you&#8217;d-have-never-guessed-God-would-be-like-this&#8217; aspects of the revelation of God in Jesus is that God&#8217;s omnipotence is the kind of omnipotence that is best pictured by a bloodied animal.  A lamb. On a throne.</p>
<p>This God is neither distant, nor a dictator.  This God suffers with us, and conquers the sin and evil that has literally ruined the world.  This God&#8217;s omnipotence is best described as lamb power.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>eyewitness testimony</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/03/eyewitness-testimony/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=eyewitness-testimony</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/03/eyewitness-testimony/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[eyewitness testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[history]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[minor characters in gospels]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[new testament]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[papias fragments]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[richard bauckham]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p></p> ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/292NTf1cCNw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></p>
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		<item>
		<title>for all</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/02/for-all/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=for-all</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/02/for-all/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[technology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evidence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[testimony]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>James Chastek points out that the authors of Scripture were not constructing a body of &#8216;evidence&#8217; for God, but rather relating their testimony of things they were witnesses to.  He remarks, &#8220;Christ, for one, was chiefly interested in making sure that he would have continual witnesses on earth, not that there would be any careful documentation of what he did <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/02/for-all/">for all</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James Chastek <a href="http://thomism.wordpress.com/2011/02/06/evidence-rhetorical-style-and-testimony/">points out</a> that the authors of Scripture were not constructing a body of &#8216;evidence&#8217; for God, but rather relating their testimony of things they were witnesses to.  He remarks, &#8220;Christ, for one, was chiefly interested in making sure that he would  have continual witnesses on earth, not that there would be any careful  documentation of what he did or incontrovertible evidence that he did  it.  [...] It is not obvious that founding everything on a monument, a DNA finding,  a more meticulous Hebrew census-taking, etc. would be a better way to  go.&#8221;</p>
<p>And it occurs to me that founding the faith on <em>personal testimony</em> instead of &#8216;evidence&#8217; (i.e. &#8220;a monument, a DNA finding, a more meticulous Hebrew census-taking, etc.&#8221;) is more fitting of a God who wishes to be known to any and all <em>persons</em> and not only to archaeologists, geneticists, and historians.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>rapists into lovers?</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/rapists-into-lovers/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=rapists-into-lovers</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/rapists-into-lovers/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ethics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[biblical theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[diversity in the OT]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fill and subdue]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[non-violence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pacifism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tend and keep]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[violence]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Just reading those intro chapters of Genesis, and I noticed what seems quite a contrast between the human vocation statements in the two creation stories.</p> Gen 1:28 says humans are to &#8216;fill&#8216; (מָלֵא mala - be full; fill) and &#8216;subdue&#8216; (כָּבַשׁ kabash - be raped; subjugate; be humiliated; etc.) the earth&#8230; Then Gen 2:15 says they are to &#8216;tend&#8216; (עָבַד <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/rapists-into-lovers/">rapists into lovers?</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just reading those intro chapters of Genesis, and I noticed what seems  quite a contrast between the human vocation statements in the two  creation stories.</p>
<ul>
<li> Gen 1:28 says humans are to &#8216;<strong>fill</strong>&#8216; (מָלֵא <em>mala </em>- be full; fill) and &#8216;<strong>subdue</strong>&#8216; (כָּבַשׁ <em>kabash </em>- be raped; subjugate; be humiliated; etc.) the earth&#8230;</li>
<li>Then Gen 2:15 says they are to &#8216;<strong>tend</strong>&#8216; (עָבַד <em>abad</em> &#8211; work, serve) and &#8216;<strong>keep</strong>&#8216; (שָׁמַר <em>shamar </em>- keep, watch, preserve) it.</li>
</ul>
<p>Quite striking! The first has images of conquest; of a top-down power play&#8230; The second has images of care-giving; of a bottom-up servant-hood&#8230;</p>
<p>I wonder if this would be the starting place for a biblical theme of violence?  Perhaps, just as there is a tension between priestly (pro-temple)  accounts and prophetic (pro-justice) accounts in the OT, this also  evidences a tension between understandings concerning violence and  war&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;and just as Jesus agreed with the prophets (over against the &#8216;religious&#8217; priests), he also agreed with those who were the servants and preservers of creation (over against the violent ones who would kill for religious liberty)!</p>
<p>Thoughts and insights welcome.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>good killing?</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/good-killing/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=good-killing</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/good-killing/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ethics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[philosophy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[context]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[harem commands]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[interpretation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[killing]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>Very few people would say that killing humans is categorically wrong (all times, places &#38; circumstances).  Most would have general ideas about extenuating &#8211; and tragic &#8211; circumstances which justify it.  So, a kind of moral calculus is almost always at work where the weight of the consequences of killing is contrasted with the weight of the consequences of not <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/good-killing/">good killing?</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very few people would say that killing humans is categorically wrong (all times, places &amp; circumstances).  Most would have general ideas about extenuating &#8211; and tragic &#8211; circumstances which justify it.  So, a kind of moral calculus is almost always at work where the weight of the consequences of killing is contrasted with the weight of the consequences of not killing.  (We could &#8211; and probably should &#8211; include violence that doesn&#8217;t result in death, but we won&#8217;t go there now)</p>
<p>With that in mind, the most problematic and difficult content of the Bible for me to understand (as a Christian, let alone a dweller in a modern, pacifist, egalitarian context) is the apparent command to kill an entire tribe, including animals, women and children &#8211; even <em>babies</em>; if interpreted literally (i.e. 1 Samuel 15:1-3).</p>
<p>(On this, see Matt Flannagan&#8217;s <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2011/01/god-and-the-genocide-of-the-canaanites-i-wolterstorff%e2%80%99s-argument-for-the-hagiographic-hyperbolic-interpretation.html">various</a> <a href="http://www.mandm.org.nz/2011/01/god-and-the-genocide-of-the-canaanites-part-ii-ancient-near-eastern-conquest-accounts.html">posts</a> providing what I see as good reason to see the &#8216;total destruction&#8217; language as a culturally normative &#8211; and hyperbolic &#8211; war language.  The Bible itself records later activity of the very nations who were killed, which indicates that the command cannot be literal.)</p>
<p>But putting to one side the question of how literally we can responsibly read the &#8216;harem&#8217; command, this is still the annihilation of an entire nation.  I don&#8217;t propose to &#8216;solve&#8217; this one with this post, but I do offer some contributions to the discussion.</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>The literary question: How literally can we read the command to kill a whole nation, babies and all?</strong> Hey! I said we were putting that to one side! Go to Matt&#8217;s blog for that one!  But yeah, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a literal command.  But as for the question of in what sense can we say God commanded this, it seems to me (and seems to fit with the doctrine of Incarnation?) that the word of God has to &#8216;take flesh&#8217; in real time and space, and that a command of God must be intelligible to the recipients &#8211; using language and terms that would make sense to them.  It makes all the historical sense in the world that the command would use the &#8216;war language&#8217; of the times.</li>
<li><strong>The biblical theology question: How does this command square with the rest of the Bible?</strong> First of all, the supposed contradiction between an only wrathful OT God and an only gentle NT God is rubbish, because God is described as both wrathful and gentle in both the OT and NT.  Second, there seems to me to be both continuity and discontinuity with this command and the rest of the Bible.  Continuity in that God, right throughout the Bible, gives and takes life; discontinuity in that there does seem to be a progression towards non-violence.</li>
<li><strong>The ethical question: Isn&#8217;t it &#8216;just wrong&#8217; to command a whole group of people to be killed? Even just the fighting men if it wasn&#8217;t a literal command?</strong> I actually don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s so simple as it being &#8216;just wrong&#8217;.  There is a lot we don&#8217;t know about the historical situation.<sup><a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/good-killing/#footnote_0_1591" id="identifier_0_1591" class="footnote-link footnote-identifier-link" title="I&amp;#8217;m also entirely bracketing the current buzz of discussion as to the historicity of the accounts up to and including King David.&nbsp; The evidence is not as clear, methinks, as some want it to be.">1</a></sup>  If we grant a) that the command isn&#8217;t literal (babies, women, etc.), leaving only militants being killed, and if  we grant b) that the &#8216;rules of engagement&#8217; were applied (allowing non-combatants to leave, making an offer of peace first, etc.) as prescribed in the Torah, and if we grant c) that the people killed  indeed practiced cannibalism, human-sacrifice and were bent on killing the Israelites, then it certainly puts things in a very different light.</li>
<li><strong>What about someone who doesn&#8217;t know all of that about the historical context, etc.?  How do they deal with this command to kill a nation, including babies, etc.?</strong> This is a very good question, because the author(s) of these texts certainly did not intend them to become the subject of a historical and ethical evaluation.  These commands reflect a God who is wrathful (and grieved) at human sin.  More specifically a God who is grieved and angered by false religion (namely: worship of &#8211; and obedience to &#8211; idol non-gods) that leads to such dehumanising and degrading practices as child sacrifice &amp; cannibalism.  Quite apart from 1) the debates over whether the  command is literal and 2) the qualifications about progressive revelation, we can understand these commands quite basically: God is saying &#8216;enough&#8217; to anti-humane nations, and sparing them from their own continued existence.  Putting them out of their own misery, so to speak.  I read this comment <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/bible/1sa015.htm">here</a>, which takes a similar line &#8211; &#8220;The great Master of life and death (who cuts off one half of all mankind whilst they are children) has been pleased sometimes to ordain that children should be put to the sword, in detestation of the crimes of their parents, and that they might not live to follow the same wicked ways.&#8221;</li>
</ul>
<p>I don&#8217;t think any of this &#8216;solves&#8217; the issue, which I will continue to ponder.</p>
<ol class="footnotes"><li id="footnote_0_1591" class="footnote">I&#8217;m also entirely bracketing the current buzz of discussion as to the historicity of the accounts up to and including King David.  The evidence is not as clear, methinks, as some want it to be.</li></ol>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>dancing goddess</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/dancing-goddess/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=dancing-goddess</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/dancing-goddess/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 05:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bumper stickers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dancing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[female imagery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[goddess]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>I saw a bumper sticker the other day that read:</p> <p>&#8220;the goddess is dancing&#8221;</p> <p>The car probably belongs to an adherent of one kind or other of &#8216;new-age&#8217; spirituality.  But I caught myself and stopped short of easy dismissal-ism.  I asked myself, &#8220;Hey, cannot a Christian in a sense say the same thing?&#8221;</p> <p>After all, the Bible does include feminine <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2011/01/dancing-goddess/">dancing goddess</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a bumper sticker the other day that read:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;the goddess is dancing&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The car probably belongs to an adherent of one kind or other of &#8216;new-age&#8217; spirituality.  But I caught myself and stopped short of easy dismissal-ism.  I asked myself, &#8220;Hey, cannot a Christian in a sense say the same thing?&#8221;</p>
<p>After all, the Bible does include <a href="http://motherfather.digress.it">feminine</a> <a href="http://www.womenutc.com/feminineimagesforgodinthebible1.htm">descriptions</a> of God:</p>
<ul>
<li>God is like a birthing mother in Job 38:29, Deut. 32:18</li>
<li>Israel &#8216;nurses&#8217; at God&#8217;s breasts in Isaiah 66:12-13</li>
<li>God is compared to a mother in Hosea 11:4 &amp; Psalm 131:2</li>
<li>Jesus speaks of wanting to protect Jerusalem as a <em>mother</em> hen covers her young in Luke 13:34</li>
</ul>
<p>And&#8230; the Bible also includes pictures of a celebrating (&amp; thus <em>dancing</em>) God:</p>
<ul>
<li>&#8220;He happily rejoices over you, renews you with his love, and celebrates (&#8220;<em>dances</em>&#8221; in some translations?) over you with shouts of joy.&#8221; &#8211; Zeph. 3:17b</li>
<li>&#8220;And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So your God will rejoice over you.&#8221; &#8211; Isaiah 62:5b</li>
<li>Jesus, God-with-us, went to &#8211; and if he was Jewish, he <em>danced</em> at &#8211; weddings (and likened the Kingdom of God to them) &#8211; John 2:2 &amp; Matthew 22:2</li>
</ul>
<p>So maybe the bumper-sticker is more biblical than most Christians (and new-agers!) realise?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>suzanne</title>
		<link>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2010/12/suzanne/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=suzanne</link>
		<comments>http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2010/12/suzanne/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[art]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[leonard cohen]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[suzanne]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/?p=1555</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p>second verse by Cohen:</p> <p>And Jesus was a sailor When he walked upon the water And he spent a long time watching From his lonely wooden tower And when he knew for certain Only drowning men could see him He said &#8220;All men will be sailors then Until the sea shall free them&#8221; But he himself was broken Long before <span style="color:#777"> . . . &#8594; Read More: <a href="http://www.fruitfulfaith.net/2010/12/suzanne/">suzanne</a></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>second verse by Cohen:</p>
<blockquote><p>And Jesus was a sailor<br />
When he walked upon the water<br />
And he spent a long time watching<br />
From his lonely wooden tower<br />
And when he knew for certain<br />
Only drowning men could see him<br />
He said &#8220;All men will be sailors then<br />
Until the sea shall free them&#8221;<br />
But he himself was broken<br />
Long before the sky would open<br />
Forsaken, almost human<br />
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone<br />
And you want to travel with him<br />
And you want to travel blind<br />
And you think maybe you&#8217;ll trust him<br />
For he&#8217;s touched your perfect body with his mind.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
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